Channel #semanticcamp: Logs

This is a public chat log generated from the #semanticcamp IRC channel.

Date

< 2008>< 02 >< 18 >

23:15:01 jibot: danbri is that foaf guy from http://danbri.org/

01:19:42 cbetta: semanticcamp was GOOD

01:19:58 cbetta: even while I spent more time networking than attending talks

01:21:46 tantek: was much of it captured on a wiki etc for folks to review afterwards

01:21:47 tantek: ?

01:24:09 cbetta: uhh

01:24:11 cbetta: donnow

01:24:13 cbetta: dont think so

01:24:18 cbetta: I didnt

01:24:32 cbetta: sorry

01:24:40 cbetta: we did talk about you

01:26:07 tantek: i was bummed to miss it for sure, and wasn't able to figure out doing a video for it either.

01:26:31 cbetta: ah

01:26:32 cbetta: well

01:26:42 cbetta: most people put their slides on slideshare

01:26:46 cbetta: when they had some

01:26:57 cbetta: there were people that broadcasted to yahoo life

01:27:11 cbetta: but you honestly need a good mic for that to be able to follow that

01:27:18 cbetta: I tried this morning from home

01:27:25 cbetta: I meant Yahoo! Live

01:29:43 tantek: is yahoo live archived?

01:29:57 tantek: even then, real time media (audio/video) is hard to browse

01:30:22 cbetta: dont know

01:30:24 cbetta: dont think so

01:30:29 cbetta: I know Ustream can record

01:31:11 cbetta: I did a talk on Alper Cugun's hcard, which was more of a demo/discussion

01:31:44 tantek: nice

01:31:49 cbetta: I meant Alper Cugun's hAvatar plugin

01:31:51 tantek: his plugin for Wordpress?

01:31:52 tantek: right

01:32:03 cbetta: sorry, doing 5 dings at a time

01:32:04 tantek: I think he updated it recently to support representative hCard parsing right?

01:32:11 cbetta: yeah

01:32:14 cbetta: that is what we discussed

01:32:28 cbetta: and your site is kinda one of the few sites that really has more than one hcard on it

01:33:01 cbetta: had a small discussion on what hAvatar really does that Gravatar can't

01:33:18 tantek: lots of social network sites are

01:33:22 tantek: on profile pages

01:33:33 tantek: primary hCard for the person (represented by the profile)

01:33:41 tantek: and then mini hCards in their friends list

01:33:42 cbetta: yeah but those sites arent often used as people's main url

01:33:48 cbetta: but in the future they certainly will

01:33:52 tantek: e.g. http://pownce.com/t

01:33:56 cbetta: yeah

01:33:58 tantek: http://mahalo.com/member/tantek

01:33:59 cbetta: true

01:34:03 cbetta: I think twitter does it too

01:34:12 tantek: that's certainly the trend

01:35:12 cbetta: but we discussed that there currently is one issue with the hAvatar plugin

01:35:19 cbetta: and that is that it doesn't cahce

01:35:25 cbetta: not that that causes performance problems

01:35:45 cbetta: but more that someone can change their avatar in one of your old posts to something inappropriate that you will never notice

01:36:14 cbetta: where as Gravatar is centralized and therefore checked by the Gravatar people to not contain any explicit content

01:38:06 cbetta: kind of a pickle on who has to take responsibility of that foreign content that an hAvatar is

01:39:49 cbetta: this is the link to version 0.3 of the plugin http://fourstarters.com/2008/02/09/havatar-updated-version-03/

01:47:11 tantek: cbetta - the problem is the whole notion of "explicit content" itself is flawed, doesn't scale, and will never make everyone happy

01:47:25 cbetta: yeah true

01:47:42 cbetta: so I suggested to just store the avatar used at the time of the comment and never change it

01:48:08 cbetta: problem there is that people want to be able to "change" their avatar internet-wide whenever they can

01:48:32 cbetta: you see where this went

01:50:44 tantek: not quite

01:50:51 tantek: i think it's a feature that people can update their avatar

01:51:25 tantek: you can always whitelist domains from which you trust hCard images

01:51:50 tantek: for example you could say, hey, I like Livejournal's terms of use for icons, so I'll let any/all livejournal profile hCards thru

01:51:51 tantek: etc.

01:52:01 tantek: in reality i think this is blown out of proportion

01:52:16 tantek: so just block/ban people who change their avatars to something offensive (whatever that means to you)

01:52:34 tantek: and have the plugin just keep track of when changes occur to any avatar on any comment so you can review yourself

01:53:05 tantek: btw re: "explicit content" - that whole notion results in lowest common conservative denominator thinking

01:53:10 tantek: like what if I don't want any religious iconography showing up on my blog but am ok with people showing skin?

01:53:19 cbetta: yeah

01:53:20 cbetta: ok

01:53:22 cbetta: true

01:53:29 tantek: so always question anyone who says "explicit content"

01:53:31 tantek: there is no such thing

01:53:36 tantek: what is explicit for one person isn't for another

01:53:38 tantek: etc.

01:53:40 cbetta: so basically it is the responsibility of the plugin to give the user options

01:53:49 tantek: or not

01:54:06 tantek: don't bother coding it until people complain more about that than about other feature requests

01:54:13 cbetta: true

01:54:16 tantek: let the community help shape priorities

01:54:20 tantek: rather than being fear driven up front

01:54:27 tantek: a priori fear is a really bad way to make decisions

01:55:38 cbetta: ok

01:55:40 cbetta: good point

01:55:43 cbetta: thanx

01:57:35 tantek: good questions/issues

01:57:47 cbetta: yeah tthat was kind of the point

01:57:54 cbetta: get discussion and awareness

01:57:55 tantek: could you capture them FAQ style here? http://microformats.org/wiki/subscribe-to-hcard

01:57:57 tantek: i have to run

01:57:59 tantek: thanks!

01:58:03 cbetta: im off to bed

01:58:07 cbetta: maybe tomorrow

01:58:11 tantek: is ok do tomorrow

01:58:12 cbetta: have to discuss with alper anyway

01:58:13 tantek: thanks much!

01:58:23 tantek: go ahead and post the issues/answers

01:58:26 cbetta: you have to ask tom for videos/wiki

01:58:30 tantek: can discuss by sending folks URLs to it

01:58:36 tantek: capture first, discuss later

01:58:44 cbetta: ok

01:58:47 cbetta: will do

09:10:35 binarytales: tom posted on here a few days ago a link to a website that let you search all public twitter posts, anyone know what i'm talking and can give me the link again cos I can't find it.

09:34:48 binarytales: tommorris, a few days ago you posted a link here that was a site that let you search twitter posts? can you remember it and of so can you give me the link?

09:35:07 tommorris: yep - http://terraminds.com/twitter/

09:35:12 binarytales: thanks

09:35:17 tommorris: if you use yubnub you can use twt

09:35:45 binarytales: no idea what either of those are

09:36:46 tommorris: yubnub.org

09:36:48 binarytales: I need to swap my battery but without shutting down my laptop...... damn.

09:37:48 binarytales: oh.... maybe i can last till my train comes in...

09:37:52 binarytales: its going to be close

10:47:57 jibot: bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)

11:19:52 Phae: http://fberriman.com/2008/02/18/semanticcamp-london/

11:19:56 Phae: fyi

11:27:16 bengee: cool

11:27:43 bengee: bengee has been pondering a test suite for the MF extractors in ARC

11:28:16 bengee: could maybe try to generalize that somehow

11:28:50 Phae: m'k

11:33:43 kwijibo: bengee: how would that work?

11:34:46 kwijibo: Phae: how come ARC's not on the list?

11:35:12 bengee: I haven't added it to the mf wiki yet

11:36:04 kwijibo: hmm

11:36:24 bengee: re test suite, we'd need some flat/unified/canonical way to represent the information a MF parser should extract

11:36:54 kwijibo: bengee: what about your idea of vanilla mf mapping to rdf?

11:37:15 kwijibo: ie: using the wiki as a namespace uri or something, instead of mapping to foaf/vcard

11:37:32 Phae: sorry, attempting to do some work (and failing)

11:37:46 bengee: heh

11:37:53 kwijibo: that would give a unified format to run testsuites on

11:38:02 Phae: not on list because they weren't actually on our list...

11:38:11 Phae: i need to mentally run over the other bits we talked about. i didn't take notes :/

11:38:53 bengee: kwijibo, yeah, something like that. for tests prolly w/o a namespace uri at all

11:39:44 bengee: like rdf/json objects, but with short keys

11:40:18 kwijibo: bengee: you'd need some namespace uri I think, no? I think there's some clashing of terms depending on the mf

11:40:25 kwijibo: could be wrong

11:40:50 kwijibo: i thought, eg: 'title' was used in more than one mf

11:40:57 bengee: well, microformats are single-namespace

11:41:38 kwijibo: or rather, a 0 namespace

11:41:39 bengee: you'd pass in something like the structure you get from e.g. the mofo parser

11:43:20 bengee: bengee gotta do work, too

11:45:06 kwijibo: you'd need to use the rdf namespace for rdf:type to say what kind of microformat it was though

11:45:14 yvesr: http://blog.dbtune.org/post/2008/02/17/Yay-for-SemanticCamp

11:45:50 Phae: ty :)

11:46:02 Phae: we ought to stick the blog articles on teh wiki

11:46:04 bengee: for a microformateer-friendly test suite, I'd try to avoid URIs where possible

11:48:27 kwijibo: c'mon bengee, it's only one ;)

11:48:30 kwijibo: one little uri

11:48:58 yvesr: :)

11:49:18 bengee: was really cool to meet you guys IRL, btw .)

11:49:25 kwijibo: IRL lol

11:49:35 kwijibo: yes, definitely

11:49:56 yvesr: yes, it was really great :)

11:50:02 kwijibo: It was great to get to see all the cool stuff you guys are doing first hand

11:50:22 bengee: well, as far as a barcamp represents real life ;)

11:50:37 kwijibo: dbtunes, knowee, beatnik, etc, great stuff :)

11:50:46 Phae: no offense intended, but it was much better than i was expecting. i thought it was genuinely fun, interesting and actually made me quite optomistic again

11:50:57 bengee: s/IRL/3d space/

11:51:06 kwijibo: lol

11:51:20 kwijibo: kwijibo imagines 3d irc

11:53:31 bengee: kwijibo, the drupal chump on #swig is apparently another rdf/json implementation

11:53:54 kwijibo: Tom Heath's blog commented that it was a shame that there seemed a bit of a divide between swiggers and 'teers

11:54:54 kwijibo: in retrospect, it's maybe a shame there wasn't more emphasis one how tools like ARC can bring the worlds together

11:55:27 Phae: i think there was some good-natured banter, but as a 'teer, i didn't feel like either technique was being dismissed

11:55:52 kwijibo: bengee: so I can get rdf/json of swig logs?

11:56:18 kwijibo: got a uri?

11:56:19 bengee: Phae, I think so, too

11:56:45 Phae: in fact, i was really pleased to have some good conversations with people about best use-cases for either and working along side one another

11:56:52 Phae: i wish i'd known a bit more about ARC before this weekend, tbh

11:57:48 kwijibo: I read about another web service that does sparqling of mf - do they use arc, d'y'know bengee?

11:58:21 bengee: ARC only just began to attract mfers, still some way to go

11:58:55 bengee: collected a number of useful suggestions at semcamp

11:59:47 Phae: right, i gotta go scrum. back later.

12:00:11 kwijibo: cu

12:00:20 bengee: kwijibo, no rdf/json in the chump, but related to the chump'd URL

12:00:27 kwijibo: ah bengee, I understand now, re json

12:00:35 kwijibo: http://groups.drupal.org/node/8930 <-- awesome

12:00:59 kwijibo: I like the sound of rdf_serialise and rdf_unserialise

13:03:26 danieljohnlewis: I'm collecting URIs to blog posts about SemantiCamp, so I can post them somewhere

13:04:27 danieljohnlewis: danieljohnlewis notes that some people don't tag, and some that do don't have it hooked into technorati

13:14:34 danbri: 'I like the sound of rdf_serialise and rdf_unserialise'

13:14:40 danbri: EN-uk?

13:14:49 danbri: USAmericans will want z

13:14:52 danbri: serialize

13:16:10 danbri: but getting this in drupal is going to be fantastic :)

13:16:38 danieljohnlewis: we've (OpenLink) had drupal running on top of virtuoso for a while now ;)

15:05:46 danieljohnlewis: blimey! is it really 3:05pm!

15:35:28 peepo: http://twitter.com/peepo_co_uk/statuses/719161362

15:35:46 peepo: one twitter feed, a few links with titles maybe...

19:48:39 jibot: KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius

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