This is a public chat log generated from the #semanticcamp IRC channel.
23:00:23
I've been asked for a basic tutorial on RDF
23:00:30
I'm thinking of doing:
23:00:42
- difference between subject, object and predicate
23:00:46
- directed graph
23:01:01
- classes
23:01:35
if I manage to finish it, I'll be presenting a microformats zen garden style thing
23:01:41
cool
23:01:49
otherwise, I'll do a lightning talk or something
23:01:54
we had an idea a while back of having a "most beautiful hcard" competition
23:02:04
hey
23:03:03
ooh, firefox 3 supports del.icio.us at last
23:25:34
he all
23:26:31
I lost my oyster card
23:26:37
if someone finds it tomorrow
23:26:43
has my face on it
23:26:44
:D
23:29:57
he leeky42
23:32:02
cbetta: oops :(
23:32:12
yeah
23:32:13
quite
23:32:35
cbetta: was it a season, or pre-pay ?
23:32:41
lucky me I dint give that last 2 pounds at that thai restaurant as a tip
23:32:47
prepay
23:32:51
but auto-topup
23:32:53
yeah !
23:32:56
does have my face on it
23:34:13
you are back "early" btw
23:35:06
I got back at last 9:30
23:35:10
like, even
23:35:14
so wasn't too bad, really
23:35:21
could have stayed at the pub a little longer
23:35:35
cancelled the auto-topup on my oyster
23:35:44
so I lost at most 14 pounds there
23:35:48
madness nods
23:36:16
he you can transfer stuff
23:36:21
might buy a new oyster tomorrow
23:36:26
and transfer my credit
23:41:09
trying out symfony
23:41:15
although the alcohol is not helping
23:42:02
hah
23:54:41
woot
23:54:45
skeleton app works
00:04:45
cbetta: woohoo :)
00:04:52
cbetta: have you watched the admin generator screencast ?
00:05:02
no
00:05:11
just browsing through the standard docs
00:05:14
http://www.symfony-project.org/screencast/admin-generator
00:05:24
oops, missed him
00:05:43
oops
00:06:19
heh
00:06:25
http://www.symfony-project.org/screencast/admin-generator
00:07:30
well
00:07:43
basically I first need the how-to-do-something-simple screencast
00:07:45
:D
00:10:03
hah
00:15:05
going yo bed
00:15:07
cya all
02:12:28
hi all :)
07:30:02
morning !
07:30:08
madness is looking like late :/
08:19:17
morning al ~:"
08:19:22
all even
08:26:16
morning
08:27:20
morning
10:02:52
mornin
10:13:34
anybody see my Oyster card yet?
10:31:47
Hi everyone, we are looking for people to do lightning talks... it would be good if you could think about something to do. Remember 4 minutes each (I've made a count down), preferably without slides, can be about anything.
10:32:25
it'll be starting at 11:30
10:40:11
is anyone broadcasting the talks on Yahoo Live today?
10:43:16
it's on now, thanks
10:43:25
doh
10:45:17
link?
10:45:35
http://live.yahoo.com/premasagar
10:46:19
tnx
10:46:23
sound's all slo-mo here, but maybe that's just my end
10:46:24
running a bit late today
10:46:49
ahh gareth
10:47:22
madness arrived late after getting stuck on the M4 behind an abnormal load :/
10:47:41
sounds painful
10:48:51
i am just late cause I needed sleep
10:49:00
Streaming live video again for day 2: http://live.yahoo.com/premasagar
10:53:01
good morning
10:57:54
good morning all
11:04:51
ok, so quick hands up from the person who wants to go first in the lightning talks
11:05:10
uhh..
11:08:39
heh
11:15:42
danbri rediscovers http://openp2p.com/lpt/a/554 "The Dublin Core may just as easily be used to describe "a journal article in PDF format," "an MPEG encoding of an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer recorded on a hacked TiVO," or "a healthcare speech given by the U.S. President on March 2, 2000.""
11:16:07
wondering how to do the Buffy example
11:16:46
the series is the thing that is the primary topic of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_(TV_series)
11:23:48
presentation up on slideshare - http://www.slideshare.net/garethr/parsing-microformats
11:26:20
thanks garethr, just linked it from the Schedule page: http://www.getsemantic.com/wiki/Sunday_Schedule
11:27:52
Lightning talks starting very soon in Room A
11:28:01
OlegL, going first? if so get ready :_)
11:30:09
does anyone want to help me with copy and examples for a microformats playground (zen garden style thing?)
11:36:57
are lightning talks on yet?
11:44:58
are we keeping it to 4 mins?
11:51:46
is this ligenting talks?
11:52:07
in A?
11:54:54
no jibberjim then?
11:55:16
libby and danbri, can't be there today
11:55:32
you both missed my talk yesterday ~:''
11:55:38
can't be helped...
11:58:09
:(
11:58:23
please could you both briefly look over all the icons and links on my homepage?
11:58:38
http://peepo.getmyip.com/~JonathanChetwynd/zanadu.svg
11:58:47
best viewed in opera weeklies
11:58:49
have they changed?
11:58:54
ah i was looking at peepo.com
11:59:03
FF3 ok too?
11:59:11
should be,
11:59:23
you'll miss out on the chairs at ebay
11:59:37
it's about communication being 2 way
11:59:50
the web being reactive not proactive
12:00:22
you may like the pd log, the rdf is read and the appropriate logo displayed
12:00:35
ie for the cc license
12:01:17
this?
12:01:36
plato's cave and our understanding of pet's, news, weather, chairs, maps and more...
12:02:45
sorry peepo :-/
12:02:46
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/impl/js/
12:02:56
is the n3 bookmarklet thingy
12:03:47
so yes, for those that have it, it's duplication, but that's...
12:04:17
libby, great
12:04:28
dead handy
12:06:02
what's a good way to provide a SPARQL interface to an existing MySQL database these days?
12:06:08
d2r?
12:06:18
d2r is *really* easy to use
12:06:35
http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/d2r-server/
12:06:44
thanks yves
12:06:53
np:)
12:08:21
i wish it wasnt gpl'd ... there would be a load more deployments if it had more laid-back licensing...
12:08:25
but yeah its v cool
12:09:08
libby that one seems to be broken for svg
12:09:19
which is kind of common ~:"
12:09:48
hoping that lynx & firevox may have svg support soon
12:10:03
which may help people to include titles...
12:10:09
have to run...
12:10:29
danbri: i was looking at your JQbus post just now
12:10:34
do you have it working
12:10:35
?
12:13:43
working, yep mostly kinda
12:13:59
i'll give a lightning talk maybe
12:26:38
room A: what's the link to JS project?
12:35:13
re streaming rdf, ... http://updates.sixapart.com/ is somehow near
12:35:50
try: curl http://updates.elsewhere.im/atom-stream.xml
12:38:22
hi everyone, if you would like to ask me more questions about anything to do with OpenLink Software then you can over Lunch :)
12:38:57
danieljohnlewis thinks that he should have done a proper OpenLink Data Spaces demo now instead of theory
12:39:39
just paste some links
12:39:46
re virtuoso, i'm interested re any plans for the sql table mapping thingy
12:39:48
bengee activates knowee.net
12:40:01
the language for wrapping ordinary sql into sparql
12:40:13
the d2rish thing, i forget what you folks call yours!
12:40:32
if anyone is interested in µF aggregation stuff, I'm in room C
12:40:37
virtuoso: http://virtuoso.openlinksw.net/
12:40:52
ah crap, too many interesting things at same time
12:40:56
MyOpenLink: http://myopenlink.net/ods/
12:41:44
dunno, prolly to short-termish, just put it on the board, might be better to do it after lunch
12:43:04
F aggregation?
12:43:50
mixing xfn + hcard + foaf 'n' stuff
12:44:05
yep, I'll come :)
12:48:21
NEWSFLASH: BBC will be using Ruby :)
12:49:43
lol
12:49:47
and vintage radios!
12:50:54
my slides (sorry pdf format): http://vanirsystems.com/openlink/dataspacephilosophy.pdf
12:51:27
I've added a load of links at the end of the slides too
12:51:28
hi all
12:51:35
sounds like an exciting event :)
12:51:49
hi CaptSolo :)
12:51:51
it is!
12:52:35
have fun! :)
12:52:55
pitty i can't be there, but it's good to have irc backchannel and live video to follow
12:53:33
yvesr: are you coming to socnet portability webcam in cork by any chance?
12:53:43
s/webcam/webcamp
13:26:51
hmm, winder if there's overlap between the uriPlay stuff and this: http://www.metalinker.org/
13:27:43
s/winder/wonder
13:29:12
(which is mostly RDFized, via GRDDL)
13:32:49
CaptSolo: nope :(
13:35:35
danja: posted to the uriplay guys
13:36:36
ta
13:37:08
there isn't a vocab, beyond what's implied by the grddl results
13:37:53
(which I think mostly corresponds to the names used in their xml)
13:39:24
yvesr: i see. well, then see you in Beijing. :)
13:41:06
bengee happy that his 2nd talk was a little bit less chaotic
13:42:20
.. and heading home
13:44:39
osmosoft++ for the nosh!
13:53:15
semantopoly is back in session
14:28:14
hows everyone doing?
14:28:39
doing great
14:28:44
i love the old hands-on
14:29:04
everyone here should be an RDF expert by now
14:29:37
but darn, the Net has slowed down a bunch
14:29:49
someone on p2p or whut?
14:34:15
could someone drop a short note here on who's presenting?
14:34:20
(when presenters change)
14:35:08
can't alway guess it from the video
14:35:10
:(
14:35:29
we have tom and yves here
14:35:55
libby: thanks :)
14:42:36
Hello
14:49:22
danbri and libby - we need to setup regular Bristol SWIG meets like we have in Oxford (esp. as I am moving to Bristol in may :-P )
14:50:26
yes definitely would be good to have more meetups
14:53:05
the Ox weeps as you take sail djl
14:54:29
http://www.youtube.com/user/thepointdotcom
14:54:54
so I made this for image anotation years ago: http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/06/codepictjs/
14:55:05
it needs hooking up to the linked data
14:55:12
(and it needs to work, heh
14:55:13
)
14:55:21
OlegL, I'll come back every now and then... maybe for Geek Nights
14:55:35
:)
14:55:41
it's a small country
14:55:50
(it basically does lookups to external databases)
15:02:01
libby: works for me, i like
15:02:32
most of the services no workie I think, used ot be an airports lookup and a wordnet lookup etc
15:02:43
also it's running off a tiny ancient box at home...
15:02:51
libby: yeah seems the lookups don't complete
15:03:17
it's odd the people one should work
15:03:41
Just showed Hocus-Focus.com here to some people and they like it. So maybe you guys like it too.
15:04:21
damn n3 mimetype not set up right on my web server :)
15:04:51
ah this one works, olegl http://swordfish.rdfweb.org/discovery/2003/06/codjsform/shell.html
15:05:00
anyway - the thing we just created is available at http://moustaki.org/resources/foaf.rdf#me
15:05:37
sorta
15:05:44
good stuff yvesr
15:06:45
hmm not sure the curl browsing was the best way to make it look cool :)
15:06:50
but thanks libby :)
15:07:00
cbetta: good site, libby: thanks, got foaf
15:07:17
i thought curling it was cool
15:07:29
swcurl, though? that's leet
15:07:53
heh:)
15:09:48
"The Web is Agreement" link for my Jure: http://www.flickr.com/photos/psd/1805709102/in/set-72157602805227511/
15:09:54
thanks :)
15:09:59
s/my//
15:10:45
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommorris/2271647774/
15:10:46
cool re http://moustaki.org/resources/foaf.rdf#me ... sorry i missed start of the session
15:12:25
libby likes the under construction semweb superhighway
15:13:16
hmm how about mysocalledfriends.foaf-project.org demo that showed unreciprocated friend etc links in the google social graph api?
15:13:57
danbri: heh- that'd be cool!
15:14:09
i bought stalkomatic.* last week too
15:14:19
i am sure i am an unreciprocated friend of many people though, so that may be a bit depressing :-D
15:14:20
(after privacy discussion with a former spook)
15:14:43
the question is .. can you define a former friend?
15:14:52
used-to-be-friend relation?
15:15:01
Gandalfar: not sure, but there might be somehting in the relationship ontology
15:15:17
if you kept historical logs in the crawler, you could find dropped friendships with a sparql query
15:15:22
is there "it's complicated"?
15:15:27
like pastProject' analogous?
15:16:25
back again
15:16:41
any interesting picture feeds?
15:16:55
"would you be my \"it's complicated\" on facebook?" - http://xkcd.com/355/
15:17:01
lol
15:17:06
xkcd rules
15:17:09
:)
15:17:12
if I do RDFa without defining xmlns in <html> .. would be the whole effort useless?
15:17:14
peepo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/semanticcamp/
15:17:37
yup, already covering flickr
15:17:46
also ebay, yahoo news
15:18:04
they are hard to find
15:18:28
what kind of picture feeds are you looking for?
15:18:31
alternatively text feeds with limited vocabulary such as the weather
15:18:39
i took some photos yesterday: http://myopenlink.net/photos/danieljohnlewis/#/SemanticCampLondon/
15:18:44
RDF folks might like the flickr machine tag "upcoming:event=402789"
15:18:59
it's sort of ok.
15:19:07
its fine!
15:19:08
it's not self-describing though
15:19:10
ones of public interest that describe some well known topic
15:19:12
tags are wrong place for full rdf
15:19:20
don't beat them up, they're doing something really cool
15:19:21
such as chair, pet, weather, news
15:19:23
but it's useful, and i like useful things
15:19:36
I went to visit flickr last week, nice bunch
15:20:00
http://peepo.getmyip.com/~JonathanChetwynd/zanadu.svg
15:20:03
peepo, maybe you can extract something from wikimedia commons
15:20:28
yup the weather icons come from ones I posted to wikimedia commons
15:20:32
quite like the precision of the machine tag, but not really a replacement for "semanticcamp"
15:20:40
delighted to create others in limited sets....
15:20:48
cc public domain
15:20:59
but that's hardly a feed ~:"
15:21:19
or "semanticcamplondon" or whatever people eventually agree upon
15:22:34
tommorris: excellent photography
15:22:48
just looking at http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=upcoming%3Aevent%3D402789
15:23:01
Gandalfar http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Weather_symbols
15:23:03
this is where semantic tagging is useful, in my undergrad project I used SKOS to link tags together and across flickr, del.icio.us and technorati
15:23:12
wonders if there's a nice gui html form designer online
15:23:26
html form or just form?
15:23:38
HTML form
15:23:41
i heard Google spreadsheets can be used to make forms now
15:23:47
I just hate writing form markup
15:23:48
but now we have things like MOAT ( http://moat-project.org/ ) which will become increasingly more important
15:24:09
just get a devkit like eclipse/netbeans then
15:24:22
but web based would be nice of course
15:24:53
tommorris checks delicious first
15:25:04
something like http://wufoo.com/ but free?
15:27:37
tommorris: check out http://www.jotform.com/index
15:27:46
thanks - just trying www.phpform.org
15:32:06
heya
15:32:21
i was just thinking that was a really good point
15:32:32
the monotonicity of RDF as opposed to HTML, I mean
15:34:25
HTML has its place
15:34:29
As does RDF,
15:34:33
Hiya tommorris
15:34:47
Alan is about to phone you, he just needs to locate his phone....
15:36:02
hey
15:36:04
don't - my phone is in the other room
15:37:16
Okay
15:37:18
:)
15:37:35
Me and alan are thinking of popping in to see you in about half an hour
15:37:39
:)
15:37:48
I will pass macbook over to him....
15:38:41
well, you are all planning to have a break at 4pm, right?
15:41:07
yvesr dreams about macroformats...
15:42:06
you do??
15:42:11
(this format is small. that format is *far away*.)
15:42:45
LOL!
15:43:45
JamieKnight says nothing about being copycats and trying to steal someone elses thunder
15:44:10
nothing like confusing the publisher.....
15:44:31
:)
15:45:22
Trying to get the adverage developer to be at all semantic is hard enough....
15:46:12
metade: where is Matt Wood's blog?
15:46:17
anyway, hi :)
15:47:47
there is something that really bugs me about microformats and I can't quite put my finger on it. The microformat which I find most useful is rel="tag", and thats only if its part of the anchor html tag
15:48:36
I think they are a useful step
15:48:51
I spend alot of time explaining stuff to other developers,
15:49:09
it is a step
15:49:19
they seem to be able to make the jump to microformats, but as soon as you mention RDF, FOAF etc they seem to hide cowering in the corner
15:50:06
AFAIK the best place to point a dev to is http://groups.google.com/group/dataportability-public/web/best-practice-for-site-developers
15:50:31
OlegL: most the developers i work with probobly wondent understand.....
15:50:56
They dont see how (X)HTML is about structure,
15:51:04
they see an XHTML element as how it looks.
15:51:17
I look at social networking systems, and they all seem to output XML using REST... its only a little step to turn that XML into RDF
15:51:22
you ask them how they would markup thier bedroom, and they start thinking you are insane....
15:51:41
danieljohnlewis: thats true,
15:52:15
JamieKnight does accept the posability he is insane, but thats besides the point
15:53:05
danieljohnlewis: do you know of any defined ways to do that XML -> RDF on the tool side?
15:53:06
i think its probably easier to turn a XML webservice into one that outputs RDF than to embed microformats into an (x)html page
15:53:28
adding maicroformats (when you know the data you are dealing with) is very easy
15:53:38
*microformats rather
15:53:55
maybe
15:53:57
the advergae developer can get thier head around the idea of adding a couple of tags / atributes
15:53:58
danieljohnlewis, that might be true but if you don't have an XML service to begin with, then adding microformats to your plain ol' HTML pages is a quicker win.
15:54:27
adactio: very true
15:55:07
adactio, true... it is a good step for people who have their own engines
15:55:10
for example, my school will use microformats on thier site, they wont set up an RDF / XML system etc etc
15:55:29
They like the idea of it being in FF3
15:56:00
agreed
15:56:05
and on phones etc.... (though, it seems most sony phones do wierd things if a URL sends them a vCard)
15:56:30
My college will soon be retrofitting the intranet with hCards.
15:57:00
who would deal with that additional embeddedness?
15:57:09
(that was a question for Jamie)
15:57:15
Its just goes into the template
15:57:19
they use sharepoint,
15:57:31
no, who will extract it. any machine readers?
15:57:47
Well, each seat will have firefox end of the year
15:57:57
so you would be able to pull it to your phone
15:58:18
For example, we are building a system to be able to get contact details from your phone.
15:58:19
putting it onto your phone would be useful
15:58:27
in a college situation yeah,
15:58:39
for example, trying to email tutors etc etc.....
15:59:08
the thing is, its such a small change to make (20 mins of editing a template) and now you have an easy to use store of data
15:59:30
all of a sudden tools are opened up. they may not bee usable right this secound, but having it there is a starting point.
15:59:42
yes, i am aware of that benefit
15:59:59
for my college, it took long enough for them to even agree to do that.....
16:00:17
thier external site, will soon have a hCard using the contact details.
16:00:27
small steps :)
16:01:25
http://www.richuish.ac.uk/
16:01:47
very soon, the contact details will be hcard.....
16:02:06
(along with a general poke with the semantic stick for other parts)
16:02:33
I'm off home - thanks all !
16:03:19
Am heading in to impearial with alan shortly.
16:04:18
could anyone (preferably tommorris) be at the Huxley entrance by 4:30pm?)
16:04:39
gtg too - thanks for the great event! :)
16:04:41
(alan asking, using Jamie's Macbook!)
16:04:50
sure, i'll pop down at 4.30 to let people in
16:05:06
tommorris: cool, see you there!
16:05:25
See you shortly :) (Jamie)
16:06:58
jibot is blogging at http://hashjoiito.bloxus.com & slightly confused about the meaning of & is on sf at http://sourceforge.net/projects/jibot/ & has a wiki page at http://joiwiki.ito.com/joiwiki/?jibot & has stats at http://imajes.info/hashjoiito/ & a robot with a desire to become a folk singer & a poopy-head & annoyin as ever! & dreaming of electric sheep & confused
16:09:52
no live feed from prem as he's talking about microformats
16:10:32
kapowaz is Ben Darlow, a web developer in London who writes stuff at http://kapowaz.net/
16:10:40
hey. how'd you know that.
16:11:06
jibot is here
16:11:31
yeah. how'd jibot know that?
16:11:44
if you hang out on other channels where jibot exists (#microformats) - you or someone else may have told it that
16:11:57
ah. that would explain it.
16:12:07
commands - http://joi.ito.com/joiwiki/JiBot
16:12:13
super
16:12:19
so are you all having a jolly good time there?
16:12:32
yep, it's all going well
16:12:38
grand
16:13:09
not being there I have very little good reason to be here, HOWEVER it seemed like a perfect opportunity to pimp #pubstandards
16:13:24
say no more.
16:13:36
#pubstandards is on irc?
16:13:45
has been for a long time now
16:13:47
if I'd known, I would have put it on the conference badge
16:13:49
at least 6 months
16:13:54
heh
16:14:16
this is what they look like - http://flickr.com/photos/tommorris/2265745168/
16:14:20
Does anyone here know when the next PlugLondon is on?
16:15:07
not a clue
17:04:49
http://www.flickr.com/photos/danbri/2271116721/
17:17:43
heh, this worked in sparqlpress
17:17:44
PREFIX xfn: <http://gmpg.org/xfn/11#>
17:17:45
PREFIX : <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/>
17:17:46
SELECT DISTINCT ?g ?p1 ?p2
17:17:47
WHERE {
17:17:48
GRAPH ?g {
17:17:49
{ ?x xfn:friend ?y . } UNION { ?x xfn:contact ?y }
17:17:50
?x :homepage ?p1 .
17:17:51
?x :homepage ?p2 .
17:17:52
}
17:17:53
}
17:38:12
it was good to meet you all this weekend :-)
17:38:14
(I am currently on the coach back to Oxford)
19:01:49
ooooh about 130KB/sec on the coach wifi on the M40
19:02:28
hmph, as soon as I say that it goes down to 30KB/s and then starts to hover around 90
20:55:53
danbri is that foaf guy from http://danbri.org/
22:06:31
ola